Speaker A: 0:02

Welcome to When She Pivot. I'm Lauren.

Speaker B: 0:04

And I'm Cassie. We're two working moms navigating professional and personal perspective shifts.

Speaker A: 0:09

We're here to hopefully give ourselves and others the permission to think and dream bigger while crafting lives of intention, holding space for all of who we are, professionals, mamas, caregivers, partners, and humans desiring more freedom. With Cassie's experience as a lawyer currently working in the nonprofit space, E.M. lawrence.

Speaker B: 0:27

As a former high school teacher turned entrepreneur, we think it's important to normalize this kind of self exploration with curiosity and openness instead of fear and judgment. Turning down the volume on that critical inner voice and helping you embrace what you actually want.

Speaker A: 0:42

When she Pivots is all about embracing our stories and hearing the stories of women who are maybe just a little bit further ahead on their journeys. Our stories have power not because of where they land us, but because of what we learn along the way.

Speaker B: 0:54

So let's dive in and embrace the messy middle and our stories together. Hi.

Speaker A: 1:01

Hi, my friend. Hi.

Speaker B: 1:03

Welcome back to When She Pivots, everyone. Today we are going to be doing our first book club talk and I'm really excited to dive into this one.

Speaker A: 1:15

Me too.

Speaker B: 1:17

We're covering the book Get Good with Money by Tiffany Alice the Budget Nista.

Speaker A: 1:23

Yeah, don't you just love that? The Budget Nisa.

Speaker B: 1:26

It's so fun. I think it's fab. Fab. So fun. I'm really excited to talk about it.

Speaker A: 1:33

Yeah, me too. I definitely. Did you have any knowledge of her or like expectations of this going in? I know I didn't like when we were looking for maybe something different by someone we hadn't, you know, everyone knows Ramit Sati, like people like that. She didn't come across my feed quite as much, but I still didn't know what to expect. I'm wondering if you had.

Speaker B: 1:58

I actually had stumbled across her in some podcast interviews before and in the context of her sharing high level what she does and her story.

Speaker A: 2:06

Okay.

Speaker B: 2:07

Thought her story was really compelling and she seemed really grounded and practical and like the little bits of advice and nuggets you got from her.

Speaker A: 2:14

Yeah.

Speaker B: 2:16

So yeah, she was on my radar. And then Tori From Her First 100k.

Speaker A: 2:21

Is another book sitting over in the corner.

Speaker B: 2:25

And then Ramit Sethi. Those are my. The top three that have been on my radar. But she, she was one of them.

Speaker A: 2:31

Yeah. Yeah. What do you think? Should we just kind of talk. Maybe we can talk a little bit about who she is for people that don't Know her, because that'll obviously lead into, like, she starts very clearly with her story and why this became her life.

Speaker B: 2:47

Yeah, totally. Do you want to kick it off?

Speaker A: 2:50

Sure. Well, I. I mean, I just. Obviously, you. I think I've mentioned at this point, I was a teacher. I love that she was a teacher. She opens with talking about the fact that she was a teacher at a nonprofit school. And basically on page one, she opens by talking about how she was a preschool teacher living very, you know, careful. She didn't have a lot of extra. Obviously, as, you know, teachers just don't. That's not how it is. And she found out she was out of work, and so she decided to move out of her condo, which she owned, to move home so that she could rent her condo out to a friend and make a little money. And then just a series of unfortunate events happen. And she talks about how she was scammed and this and that. I don't know if you want to go into some detail about that or not, but she just made some decisions that didn't. Didn't work out.

Speaker B: 3:48

Yeah. I think she was trying to sort of. She was trying to invest and kind of build wealth and really smart and intentional all the way through, but she just sort of, looking back, I think she feels like she felt like she made some mistakes and invested money with someone who scammed her and never saw a return. And basically the guy stole from her and sort of took advantage of. Of her. And she had worked really hard as a teacher to save that income, and it sort of left her in the negative in this really scary place. And so what I really appreciated about her story, and I think she ended up moving back home with her parents for a while.

Speaker A: 4:30

Yeah, she did.

Speaker B: 4:32

Living at home with her parents for a period of time, and she had always been a person. And I think part of what I appreciated about her starting with her story is there's, like, the nuts and bolts of the finances. There's the acknowledgement of the mistakes that she made, but there's also, like, the. The psychology and the emotions and the mindset work that she had to do around those choices.

Speaker A: 4:54

Yeah.

Speaker B: 4:54

Around feeling like she was the responsible one and she'd made mistakes and felt she'd let people down and wasn't the person that her friends and family thought she was. And working through that shame as she was rebuilding her financial circumstances, I thought was really powerful, especially because I think women. There's. She started in a place where I think she felt more empowered than most.

Speaker A: 5:24

Yeah, definitely. She talks about how her parents were very cautious and very. Her dad was really good, quote, unquote, good with money.

Speaker B: 5:31

Yeah, she's good with money. She was the good with money person, and then she ended up here. And so I. As a person who's really new, as a woman who's really new to stepping into financial empowerment, same. But I'm really into it now, and I'm. I feel like I'm just dipping my toe in the water. She has this very grounded approach that I think is empowering for women that makes it feel attainable. She speaks very plainly in a way that I think is digestible. She's not opaque, and she's really honest about the mindset piece that comes with the nuts and bolts skills. And I think she's such a teacher. It's, like, a lot.

Speaker A: 6:10

Oh, yeah.

Speaker B: 6:11

So I was expecting to, like, sit down and just read, and it's like, there's assignments and. And I think that's intentional. I wasn't fully prepared for it when I sat down for it. So I still have some assignments to do. Yeah, I just. I really. Overall, I really liked her. I liked her approach, and I liked how she was really transparent, vulnerable about her story, and she kind of humanizes and normalizes, like, stumbling as we go. And that's not a deal breaker. Like, wherever you are, starting is the right place, Right. It's just about getting started. And I think that's whether it's Ramit, whether it's Tiffany, whether it's Tori, that seems to be the consistent theme. It's like, just start, right? Yeah.

Speaker A: 7:01

At any point, it's. And that's the hardest step to take. I think it. Talking about the mindset work. She talks so much about behaviors and reflecting, but I think that there is something to be said. I loved Ramit's book, and I've read it a couple of times, actually. But there's something to be said for hearing this from another woman. I just think we have. And you and I have even had conversations outside of this book and even before we started, you know, talking about this specific episode, about how hard it is to admit in a certain sense, that you don't know what you wish you knew, because then you have to go about the steps to figuring it out. I would be lying if I said that a piece of meat when I grabbed this book from the store wasn't like. Like, people are gonna see me with this in line, you know, like, it's so silly. It's so silly. But I think that she gets that piece and she talks very openly about it and is so, like, kind of comforting in a way. I don't know. I just think she's so approachable and she doesn't make you feel like she really encourages you. Encourages you over and over to just meet yourself where you're at instead of coming down hard on yourself.

Speaker B: 8:25

She has these little tips too, in it that I love. And at the very beginning, she talks about becoming a paper towel person and the idea of, like. Like, expect to mess up and just get with like. Yep. Like cleaning up. And I just think that's so much less terrifying than, like.

Speaker A: 8:43

Right.

Speaker B: 8:44

Most of the conversations that I hear people having about money and how you approach so cerebral at so high level, and it makes you feel like you need a level of expertise. Mm. And I. It's not the beginning steps anyways. It's not as complicated as we think. And I think as. As a. I can say for myself, the messaging that I got around money about money growing up and the assumptions that I made about it and my capacity to own that for myself, I just. It's been a long road of both stepping, putting on my big girl pants with it if I'm being on it and not. And not sort of almost leaving it opaque on purpose because it was scary. And also feeling like it's not just like, to be a good partner, to be the mother I want to be, to be the model to my daughter that I want to be, I have to be. I have to be informed. I have to have this piece of my life dialed in. It's like, it's where I'm at right now. This is. This speaks to me exactly where I am, because I am more and more internalizing the importance of being a true and equal partner in this space.

Speaker A: 9:56

Yeah.

Speaker B: 9:56

Just really crazy to say as a 36 year old.

Speaker A: 10:01

We're just figuring it out. Yeah. I mean, it's real. And I think that that's so much more relatable than people that act like they have it. The more I read things like this, the more I talk to people, and I think you would agree, the more we realize that all of us are just trying to figure it out. It's just some of us are more willing to be noisy about that and talk about it, and other people aren't. And I think something else that I really appreciated before we get into maybe some specifics about the book and the recommendations that she makes and the way she kind of guides us through something that I really love is that she talks about starting small instead of like completely overhauling. And I think that's something that even with Ramit's book, like, I tend to get really overloaded, especially because money is just conceptually. It is. It is this big, scary thing, if I'm being honest. It is. I. At least that's how I feel. And the fact that she is not recommending right off the bat that you create a budget and that you have to change your entire lifestyle and all of your spending habits and this and that. Like, she goes step by step through the different kinds of debt you may have or the different kinds of investments you may want to make in your future, the goals that you might have, and talks about how you can take step A before you take steps C, D, and F. Right. Like, she even says, don't. You know, I think she called it. I have a note about it. Don't over sacrifice and over save. Like, she says that. And I think that there's really something to that, that you don't want to feel like you're not living your life. She references this specific example where she actually had a ton of money in the bank at this point in her life. And financially speaking was very sound. She had taken care of her debt, yada, yada. But she went home one day and her parents were like, are you okay? You look awful.

Speaker B: 12:09

Gonna point to that.

Speaker A: 12:11

Yeah. And she basically says, you know, there are better ways to do this. And your money. Yes. You should get to a point where hopefully. Or you can get to a point, if it's what you want, where your money can do more of the work for you. But if that's going to be at the cost of you living in any kind of happiness or peace at any moment. Like, it doesn't. Yeah. That you're. You shouldn't be trading one for the other. And I think that's where people get stuck is they either feel like, well, I'm just going to YOLO and figure it out later, or they do over sacrifice and they're. They refuse to spend on anything but the essentials. And that conversation is a hard one, too. I don't know.

Speaker B: 12:57

I.

Speaker A: 12:58

There are so many ways to do it. I just appreciated the perspective.

Speaker B: 13:01

I think so, too. And she really talks about one of her principles is she calls it living for joy.

Speaker A: 13:05

Yes.

Speaker B: 13:06

And. And not irresponsibly. And I think before I'd read enough of these, before I'd started kind of becoming fluent in the subject matter, that would have sounded really woo to me and like, yeah, okay.

Speaker A: 13:17

Right.

Speaker B: 13:18

But I'm really starting to understand now how tied in our money stories and the way we influenced by money and our mindset around it is so critical as a foundation for building financial wellness and educating ourselves. Being aware of the stories that we have, being aware of being the responsible one. In her case, I can't say that's the case for me, but that was the case for her and what that meant for her and the sacrifices she was making for her own well being at the time where she was trying to embody that.

Speaker A: 13:55

I don't know.

Speaker B: 13:56

Yeah, it, it, it, it resonated with me too.

Speaker A: 14:01

Yeah. Well, and she, even her talk of she. You've referenced it a couple times. But this idea of being financially whole, I like that she breaks it down that way throughout the text and at the end of every chapter, she basically gives you a percentage of like, okay, this will get you to this percentage of being financially whole.

Speaker B: 14:21

The lesson plan.

Speaker A: 14:22

Yes, seriously. But she also talks about, and I think this is a poignant conversation given the lay of the land right now with social media and making money online and all the things she really encourages you. I think this is in the first chapter to consider what being financially free looks like to you. Because just because you have money in the bank doesn't mean you're financially free. If you're speaking to the story that she referenced about her parents calling her out for looking terrible, she wasn't actually taking care of herself. She had a huge sum of cash that she had saved up and that gave her a lot of comfort. But it didn't. She was so focused on growing the amount that she had stopped living her life in many ways. And so what does that financial freedom look like? I know for me personally, I have been having a lot of these conversations with women I know lately. It's no secret that I have created a, you know, carved out a little space for myself on the Internet, making money, doing social media scheduling and content creation and the whole thing. And it's funny because at the busiest that I was, and this was probably at this point over a year ago, I think I had seven full time clients. I was making really great money. I was technically working from home with my daughter, right? All of those things. I was checking all these boxes. And yet, let me tell you, I hit a point where I was miserable. I remember breaking down to Andrew one day and being like, I am working. Any moment that her eyes are closed or any moment that you are actually home, whether it was in the early mornings before everyone was awake, or at night after he got home, from work or on the weekends when he could actually be with her so that I could work. I was doing really well and I was crushing it. But I was miserable because I wasn't even seeing my family that I had, quote, unquote, worked so hard to be home with. Right. Yeah. So I think that God forbid you.

Speaker B: 16:37

Have any time for yourself too.

Speaker A: 16:39

Oh yeah, that was a pipe. Treated that point. But yeah, like really figuring out what. What money could do for you that would make you feel like you had that freedom. It's different for everybody. It doesn't look the same for me.

Speaker B: 16:58

Yeah, I agree with you. And for me, it's sort of like you have to get. I have. You have to get dialed in on the basics as an individual and with your partner. And if I'm being honest, I think this is sort of like a. There's like a bit of a feminist manifesto which I really appreciate with like the nuts and bolts of personal finance. What's missing for me, and it's not fault of the book, it just doesn't speak to it. Yeah. Is how to do it in partnership with another person. How to get in alignment with your spouse or your life partner and sort of plan around your needs as a couple or your needs as a family. Like that piece of it conversations I feel like you could supplement this with. But that's a whole different skill set into unto itself that I'm really working on cultivating personally right now too. And I can share resources for that or we can at another time. But I think getting dialed in before you start expanding your goals or figuring out what kind of income streams you want or what you want your retirement account to look like, it's starting really basic, which for me was really hard. I wanted to talk about like pie in the sky, big stuff. But I like my month to month. Right. And so I think focusing there and where she starts you. And then she'll tell you that's 10% of the thing. Right. Most people stop and I think historically have stopped and ended with budget and that's 10%. Right. So you start there, you get dialed in. It's. It's essential. It's an essential component, but it's not the be all end all. And from there I think she sort of builds you through her lesson plans to the point where she's talking about like leaving a legacy to your family and an estate plan. Right. And she. And I think the layers of that and how she builds you there slowly make it feel attainable and manageable. But I also think it means you take this book in chunks.

Speaker A: 18:50

Right.

Speaker B: 18:51

If you're going to adopt her strategy, you can do a read through and then you go back and she has a workbook that corresponds with it and you really kind of deep dive into each one and tackle them individually because I think it would be overwhelming to do it all at once. But she's not really promoting that. She wants. I think she wants you to approach it incrementally.

Speaker A: 19:14

Yeah, she definitely speaks a lot to this being the long game. And I think this is just something that plagues our generation in every aspect of our lives is, you know, it's not going to be instant, it's not going to be overnight, it's not something that you can solve in a week. Like this is something that you. I think I definitely include myself in this camp. She talks about how a lot of people get so stressed at the idea of like, okay, I'm going to sit down, I'm going to make a plan, I'm going to look at it, I'm going to realize I am in the red every month and I'm going to see that number and then I'm not going to know what to do next and what to do with it. So I'm just going to bail. And she talks about how you really have to look at it from a perspective of over the next however many years, this is how we can make baby steps to make sure that we take care of the debt and then start saving and then maybe are able to invest and take care of our families later. Like, let's just like let's take it down a notch.

Speaker B: 20:19

I really like. So the first thing she'll have you do is you'll sit down and you'll sort of calculate your monthly what comes in and what goes out. And when she talks about like your beginning monthly savings, she calls it AKA tears and tissues time.

Speaker A: 20:32

Yeah.

Speaker B: 20:33

I just think like she's just normalizing. That's true. And comfy. Um, that most of us aren't going to be super pleased with where we land. But it's empowering to know. Right. And I think especially for women and maybe I should just speak for myself but like there's like been this false sense of comfort in the opaqueness of it.

Speaker A: 20:54

Yeah. Because if you don't know, then you don't know how bad it is.

Speaker B: 20:58

And I just think that's such a trap for women. And I really appreciate that she's normalizing it, being really uncomfy, maybe a little bit painful and a little bit of A come to Jesus, if you will, around it. But that is part of the process. And I think the fact that she normalizes that in this first section is really, is really cool. And I don't think we need to go into the specifics about like what the assignments are and how you budget what comes in.

Speaker A: 21:23

Yeah.

Speaker B: 21:24

Allocate what goes out. But what I did appreciate, which she's really clear about helping you label what are like your fixed costs that don't change and then what are the recurring costs that shift and adjust and having that sort of be. I think it's the UB and B category. B is a bill, UB is utility bills. So the ones that flux better there no matter what. And then C is for cash expenses where you have a high level of control. And then she really kind of helps you break down depending on what your position is, how you prioritize those different things, how you figure out. She calls it, I think your noodle budget. You need to. Not so that you live in that space, but just so that you can kind of identify the places where you could make cuts if you need to as your starting point. Anyways, I just thought like the tips were really practical and grounded.

Speaker A: 22:20

Yeah.

Speaker B: 22:21

Felt doable and also didn't make you feel like you needed to live your life like as a fire movement person, if that's not your jam. Right. Giving you the tools to sort of make assessments strategically.

Speaker A: 22:38

Yeah. And I like that she gives, she gives tons of real life examples that she references, which most of most books like this do. But, you know, she paints pictures of people that she's worked with and how what this looks like in real life. And she gives so many of the tips that she offers might seem like to some, this is not. I'll just come out and say it. I don't think this is the book for somebody that is already pretty savvy when it comes to money. This is definitely a, you're starting or you're figuring it out or you just don't feel incredibly confident yet, then this is a good place to be. And because of that, some of these tips, I, when I read them, I'm like, God, that makes so much sense. But it's so simple. Why didn't. Why haven't I thought of that? Right. But it's, it's so nice to have somebody lay that stuff out for you. One specific example of that, and you had brought up the issue of automation earlier, which I, I know I do not do. Enough of this. We are it. We. Andrew and I are in the process of making this much more part of our everyday life because it's overwhelming. You have to set it. It takes so much work on the front end to do it. But then it's locked and loaded and you don't have to, you know, it's set it and forget it kind of. But one thing that she references, which I just thought is such a good idea for people like me, that I fall victim to ads on Instagram or seeing influencers post things from Amazon that I can have arrive at my doorstep in two days. Spending things that, spending money on, things that I really, at the end of the day don't need. And I know that that has become one of the things that I need to rein in. And she makes a very practical suggestion to instead of working with a brick and mortar bank, working with an online bank so that the money is more inconvenient to access. Yeah. And I was like, that's so, that's so simple. But it's so smart. And for someone like me that does impulse buy a lot, it makes so much sense. Like you get sidetracked and you, if you realize that you can't immediately transfer the amount into your checking account so that you can make the purchase immediately, then chances are you're going to forget about it and you're not going to purchase it anyway. Just things like that that are little tiny hacks but really can over time add up to make a big difference.

Speaker B: 25:16

I agree. And just, I think it's, it's a consistent theme with all of the money experts that I've been following is this idea of automation as like a building stability and wealth. Yeah. Having as little in your checking account as possible. Basically like what you need for. It's where you pay your bills and it's sort of like the hub where money is disseminated. Talks about different strategies, but that is, that is one of the options. And then you have these high yield savings accounts where you have less easy access but still accessible cash and you're getting higher interest rate, especially right now with where we are in our economy. I just feel like that's a really great tip. And then she talks about like bucketizing. You have your emergency savings account and she walks you through what that looks like. And then you're saving for a car, you're saving for a trip. Like you chunk those things out in different savings accounts so you can actually see how you're tracking individually towards the goals. And those are separate buckets of money. And I just think those are really good Skills. And she's not the first person to present it or recommend that. I think. I just think they're really solid strategies. Yeah, so that's the 10% hole. And then she kind of dives you into saving like a squirrel and really walks through how to save, which is some of the stuff that I just touched on too. And I just really appreciate the way that she approaches the conversation about savings, about making it feel realistic. She's talking about for some of her high bows that she uses, like, really accessible savings goals. It doesn't need to be big or massive to have an impact long term. And then she walks you through those strategies. I don't think we need to do deep dives into, like, what that looked like. Was there any takeaways from that chapter?

Speaker A: 26:59

Like, no, I don't think so. The only one that I specifically noted, I think this is in that chapter or this is. I'm looking at the chapter on credit right now because I know that's something that I definitely could have used more information about a long, long time ago. But another, you know, this is something that's very popular right now. And everyone talks about hacking credit card points, but no one talks about how to make sure you're managing it the correct way so that you don't end up ******** yourself over down the line and racking up debt and then having to pay high interest. Like, you know, the compounding effects of all of that. And she mentions a strategy that she coins, jump like Jordan. And I really. Yeah, I really liked this one. She. I mean, I can just even read a little piece of this. She talks about, obviously, Michael Jordan, one of the most famous athletes of all time. He was known for his ability to jump so high that it looked like he defied the laws of gravity. Um, and then she goes on to say she calls this strategy jump like Jordan, because you auto pay off a small debt monthly. Um, and so essentially this would be an opportunity to get like a card with miles or a card with travel or whatever that you commit to paying off every month. And so there's not a balance that you're carrying on it. You just pay it off.

Speaker B: 28:22

She said you put one thing on it, she didn't. Her Netflix account. And she said that's all. She doesn't take the card out with her. All she did was put her Netflix account on it and automate that. That payment. And the fact that you have a bill that's being paid every month significantly under the max, is really fast track way to build your credit score. Or rebuild it and just little tricks like that that are really strategic and smart. And then she also kind of talks about in the credits section which is a couple chapters ahead. But I, I think she was really strategic about the way that you understanding your credit score, understanding the whys behind opening accounts and being cautious about that because the ding that those types of checks can have on your credit. Not to say you shouldn't do it, but she just walks you through how to be strategic about it. And that was one of the, that she talked about going back to the save like the squirrel. I think my biggest takeaway from chapter three that gets you to 20% was the idea that you're not going to save your way into retirement and you want to keep what you need in savings in savings and maximize your savings benefits in high yield savings accounts and online banks. But then anything over and above that that's not for a short to medium short ish term goal should be invested.

Speaker A: 29:45

Yeah.

Speaker B: 29:46

And I really appreciated that takeaway. It wasn't new to me because only because I've been reading and sort of kind of getting myself educated there.

Speaker A: 29:55

Right.

Speaker B: 29:56

Yeah. That you have what you need in savings and then you're more strategic with what goes over and above that.

Speaker A: 30:02

Right. And that's so important. And she also mentions, which I think is just a good reminder that there's obviously there are so many professionals that you can hire to help you with these kinds of things, but that no matter where you are at, even if you are not in a place where you can afford or that you don't want to spend the money paying somebody else to manage this for you, that there are so many books and resources out there that will podcasts, you know, things that will teach you how to do those things so that you can still reap some of the benefits. Because I think a lot of people either believe they have to know everything in order to manage it themselves or they just won't invest because they don't want to pay somebody else or they don't want to lose out.

Speaker B: 30:52

Yep. And I think there's a lot of belief and this isn't so much from this book though she, she touches on it too. It's consistent themes from people that I follow podcasts that I've listened to other books that I've read. I, I've seen so many hypos driving home the idea that investing is where and it doesn't have to be as much as it is, but there's. They will track incomes of doctors and then teachers and they will show if you start investing early and you're kind of dialed in early and you're living at or below your means as a teacher and you're not doing that as a doctor or a lawyer, for example, you will have more invested in retirement and can be quote, unquote, wealthier. Based on how you mean. It's not about what you make. What you make necessarily. I'm not minimizing income. There's so many strategies in here that she talks about for building your income and increasing what you make because you can only scrimp and save so much. And this is a really tough time economically. Inflation is insane. So I'm not minimizing the struggle of finding the funds to save and invest. It's real, it's tough. And I think a lot of people are feeling that, especially those of us who have to deal with the burdens of childcare and all of the complexities that come with being caregivers. But it also goes to show and drives home the point that, like, it's not so much about your income, it's how you utilize it, assuming that you're surviving and then have a little bit of extra. Which is a big assumption.

Speaker A: 32:30

Yeah.

Speaker B: 32:30

Right now. So anyways, I, and I appreciated that she kind of builds you to that point.

Speaker A: 32:36

She covers so many. I mean, we've, I've. I know I keep repeating myself with the word practical, but she talks about all, you know, health insurance, life insurance, disability insurance. She talks about all these different ways that you can be setting yourself up, setting your family up that I don't feel like, at least in as much detail as she goes into most other books I've read about similar topics have not really touched on that stuff. And I think that maybe, maybe it's assumed that that is something separate and so that can be learned about on its own. But I appreciated that she included a lot of information about that.

Speaker B: 33:18

I agree. And I think that she kind of sets you up to get there, like after the savings. She talks about getting yourself out of debt. And I, I really like in that section how she builds in an understanding and weaving in of money psychology. So she's. There's a way to optimize it and approach it like, quote, unquote, strategically. But then there's also a way that gets you some easy wins that builds to your confidence that might not be the most strategic. Right. And I just think understanding that people need easy wins and to see progress and goals and how that can kind of snowball and build on itself. I Won't go into the specifics because that might not be relevant to everybody. But I just think she gives you, like, plan A, plan B, and then a bit of a hybrid that really takes into account, like, people are different and what makes them tick and what's going to motivate them in this space. And then she talks about how once you're sort of built that piece out, you've accomplished your goals. That frees up potentially the money that you would need to then invest. Right. And so I just. I think she's really smart about how she builds the layers in and sort of gets you to the point where you could. You could set yourself up to have that capacity, even if it's not where you are right now. And she kind of gives you a map. So I thought that was really cool. I thought it was really smart. And she's such a teacher and. And I just think that part is so obvious, and I think it's really cool.

Speaker A: 34:41

Yeah.

Speaker B: 34:42

Well.

Speaker A: 34:42

And even at the end, I'm just kind of flipping through as we chat and, you know, again, speaking to the fact that she's a teacher, she even, you know, wraps it up with recounting the 10ish steps that she thinks that you can divide this into in order to make it palatable. And when you think of it that way, I mean, obviously making it sound like, oh, it's just 10 steps, it's a lot more complex than that. But this book makes it very. It makes it a lot easier to wrap your head around. And it makes it seem like because of those small wins and things that she built in, like you were saying, it really kind of makes you feel like, okay, I can actually do this. This is doable. This is, you know, it's not impossible. Because I think that that's often, as women, where we see a lot of that.

Speaker B: 35:38

Yeah. Or just a lot of deferring to people. And I've just had a lot of examples in my life recently. And then I've just had my own. It's its own separate conversation, but a lot of just realizations and seeing really close loved ones find themselves in circumstances that they name that they never thought they would be in, still with the responsibility of being caregivers or mothers and faced with the reality of needing to, like, step up and manage all by themselves when they don't have the tools. And that is, it could happen to any one of us. And God willing, that is not, you know, that's not going to be the reality for most of us. But I think Understanding that it could. And that if we're left in that position, we need to feel competent and prepared. And then separate from that. I just keep coming back to like, what do I want to model for my daughter and my. This kid. And I really don't want her to be left with the messages that I was. I want her to feel empowered.

Speaker A: 36:39

Yeah.

Speaker B: 36:40

And I want her to feel like she has the tools to create the life that she wants, Whatever that looks like. And you cannot separate money and money management and finance from that. From that. It's an essential skill.

Speaker A: 36:55

Yeah.

Speaker B: 36:56

So I think. Yeah. That is what drives me to really sort of become fluent in this space. And I feel like she really gives you a step by step path towards it.

Speaker A: 37:10

Yeah.

Speaker B: 37:12

Towards that end.

Speaker A: 37:12

Goal. Yep.

Speaker B: 37:14

So anyway, it's. Overall, I really liked it.

Speaker A: 37:17

Yeah, I did too. I definitely want to look more. I want to do some of the assignments, especially for the stuff near the end related to insurances and, you know, things that I haven't had a chance to do yet. I'm also really excited for us to talk to myself sweet friend Britney, who does this for a living. And she's going to come on like, this was a. I think part of the reason why we wanted to speak to this in terms of reading a book and a resource as well as getting somebody to come on and talk about it, is because those of us that are in this position where we are pivoting or you want to pivot at some point. You haven't taken steps yet. You. Money is a huge piece of the puzzle. And I think it prevents a lot of people from taking. From trying to pivot. It scares a lot of people. It might be a barrier that doesn't have to be as big of a mountain as we think it is.

Speaker B: 38:18

Yeah. That so lands. I think there are like the very real financial barriers and there's to build a Runway.

Speaker A: 38:26

Yeah.

Speaker B: 38:26

Yourself. That you can learn from places like this. But then for me, I'm just going to again.

Speaker A: 38:32

Yeah.

Speaker B: 38:34

Your head in the sand makes it impossible for you to make a very intentional strategic pivot. And I did that. I'd spent a number of my years of my life just not being dialed in in this respect. I wasn't being dumb, I wasn't being responsible. I wasn't racking up debt. I just wasn't informed enough to make strategic decisions about how much Runway do I need.

Speaker A: 38:55

Right.

Speaker B: 38:56

In order to make a pivot. And that is a skill set. That. And if I'm being honest with you, what's funny Is that my husband and I, I feel like, are really on the same page about her last pieces about investing, about insurance, about growing that worth having a team of advisors that support us, that we're making some payments there. And then we're both lawyers, so, like, being dialed in about estate planning, making sure that we're protecting what we have for our kids. It was for me and him. I honestly, as a couple, working together on it was like the nuts and bolts at the beginning. It's like we skipped the whole part about, like, being really dialed in on the basics, the day to day. Yeah. And automation and all of those pieces. So that's. And that for me, is the part that I have to dial. Have super dialed in as well, so that I can decide when and how I step in to something new.

Speaker A: 39:53

Right. So anyways, so pick up her book, read it.

Speaker B: 39:59

She's amazing. I think it's really cool to have a woman and a woman of color speaking about this in such an empowering way that makes it feel digestible. That doesn't make it feel so. I mean, she's clearly an expert. She's brilliant.

Speaker A: 40:13

Oh, yeah.

Speaker B: 40:14

You know what I mean? Like, but she intentionally, I think, breaks it into these, like, digestible lesson plans to empower women and make us feel as we tick through the steps, that getting there is attainable. And I think that's what I really most valued about her approach and her transparency about her own story. Definitely makes it feel like it's okay to stumble.

Speaker A: 40:44

Yeah.

Speaker B: 40:45

Yeah.

Speaker A: 40:46

Because we're all going to, whether we like it or not.

Speaker B: 40:48

What are you talking about?

Speaker A: 40:50

I've never made any mistakes ever in your life.

Speaker B: 40:55

Especially not. No, definitely not.

Speaker A: 40:59

Oh, all right, friend. Well, this was great. I think it's an important conversation. I'm excited for us to also chat with Brittany about all of these things, so I know she'll have some tangible tips, too.

Speaker B: 41:10

And I agree.

Speaker A: 41:12

Yeah. Hopefully this. Hopefully this helped some of you that are, you know, considering making a pivot or maybe you've already started taking steps, but you really need to get the finances dialed in.

Speaker B: 41:24

Yeah. And we'll link the budget, Nista's social media handles, and also just the title of the book, so everybody knows where to find it. Um, yeah, I think. I think it's a great starting place for people who are looking for one place to get started.

Speaker A: 41:47

Yeah. All right, well, thanks, friend, and we will chat with you guys soon. Bye.

Speaker B: 41:54

Bye. Thanks for listening to when she pivots. If you enjoyed this episode, we'd love. If you'd hit. Subscribe and leave a review.

Speaker A: 42:04

Find us on Instagram at when she Pivots and feel free to send us a message with any thoughts, questions or future episode requests. We'd love to hear from you. Here's to building our truest and most beautiful lives together.